a few things I wish we had known BEFORE we moved here!!!!

cncmike
New Member



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 3

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:44 pm

 

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Last May I was throwing a few ideas together about some concerns we felt when we moved down here, and as we near the end of our journey, I thought others might benefit from our experiences...........

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So your boss offers you a chance to move to Australia, or you see an exchange notice on the bulletin board that sounds neat, offering a chance to live overseas for a year or two. Think about it, a new and exotic land, no winter and memories/pictures to last a lifetime.

Sounds good doesn’t it? It does, and having just returned from 2 years in Melbourne, I think I have a good idea what it is all about, having left Waterloo ON in February 2002. That being said, all is not sweetness and light, and there a few things that everyone needs to know about before you sign on the dotted line, none of which will likely stop you, but that will hopefully allow you to sign a better deal.

Primary is HEALTHCARE, in that while Australia has a publicly funded health care system, as a temporary resident, you likely will be unable to access it and will require private coverage, in our case, at a cost of almost $2000.00 a year for my partner and myself. To make that worse, that did not cover dental and optical, those items requiring direct payments.

To further complicate the issue, all policies have waiting periods and “pre-existing condition” clauses that will very likely find you and your family without any meaningful medical insurance coverage for the first year or two of your adventure. Not a deal breaker, but be sure to ask very tough questions about this and have protection in writing from your employer.

Rents in Melbourne are at least as high as Toronto’s, with Sydney rents even higher yet. Housing prices in Melbourne are at least as high as Toronto’s, and Sydney at least 33% above Melbourne. Australia has a thing called STAMP duty, similar to a sales tax, but on a sliding scale which increases as the value of the property increases. This, combined with real estate agent fees, and the fact that real estate prices here are about to stagnate, a move here might find you shut out of the real estate market if your contract is only for a year or two, as you would never get enough of an increase in value to pay the stamp duty and real estate fees. While not an issue for everyone, it must be considered.

Travel costs are another issue. Although it seems obvious, few contracts have explicit “home visit” clauses, and with ticket prices only rising, a family of 4 going home only once a year for both years of a 2 year deal will cost at least $15,000 out of pocket. Like healthcare, this is not a deal breaker by itself, but be sure to ask very tough questions about this and be sure your package reflects the additional cost if possible.

In regards to day to day expenses, it varies quite widely. Clothes and shoes for both adults and children are a bit cheaper, but don’t seem to last as long. Most groceries are slightly more then Ontario, except for most meats which is about 50% more. Car petrol is about 25% more, but buying a used car costs about 50% more then Ontario. Oddly enough, seafood is about twice the cost of Canada, but lamb is only half the Ontario cost. Red and white wines are much cheaper then in Canada, with far more selection, but beer and hard liquors cost slightly more. Some exotic fruit and vegetables are much cheaper, but other things like potato chips, cheese and orange juice are twice the price of Ontario. Public transport costs much more, as you pay by the distance traveled per trip, not a flat fee per trip. Income taxes are very similar to Ontario, but sales taxes are built into the price of most goods, so the price you see is the price you pay (something you learn to appreciate very quickly).

Hopefully, no single one of these concerns by itself kills the deal, but should instead be considered in whole. My partner and I have found living abroad to be a very interesting and exciting experience, one we will carry with us for the rest of our lives, but the experience could have been even better yet had we known about some of these things going in.........

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BMUU
New Member



Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 4

Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 4:22 am

 

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An excellent summary cncmike..... and you are right all is not sweetness (e.g. the publicly funded health care system and the need for private health cover with their waiting periods and “pre-existing condition”) but it's a beautiful country, a great place to visit if you get the chance and heaps cheaper, and heaps better weather than living in places like London (clean air, better water, lots of sun and beaches, very cheap wine). Regarding real estate, because the market is stagnate at the moment as cncmike has said, rental prices are falling and so it's a good time to enter into a rental/leasing agreement and you can now get great accommodation (e.g. city or bay views) and this may be the best option if your contract is only for a year or two. Again cncmike is right that because of all the add on costs (the stamp duty and real estate fees etc) if your on a short term contract then you would never get enough of an increase in value if you purchase outright. However, I have to say that in some areas (e.g. Brighton, Middle Park), this is not the case but there are risks here.

Unlike say England, because Aus is such a long way away from most places yes it is expensive to travel overseas. There's New Zealand and Antarctica off course

All in all, it's a great place.....just eat lots of lamb, vegetables and fruit, and drink red and white wines instead of spirits and beer.

Your advice cncmike will certainly help others to cut a better deal. BTW, where were you working in Melbourne?

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kirsten78_uk
Junior Member



Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Oxford, UK

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:54 am

 

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Thanks both of you for your posts! I've been living in the UK (Oxford) for a little over four years but am moving back to Canada in about two months time, and was aiming to save up for a trip to Oz - with the thought of actually moving there. This is the kind of info I've been really interested in finding out!

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alans
New Member



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 3

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:46 am

 

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We have plans of moving to Perth Australia. A few important questions for us are...
1. Is Australia a culturally rich and embracing country as Canada?
2. How would you compare family and social life in Australia to Canada?
3. What are the negatives of moving to Australia when compared to Canada?

Any feed back is welcome.
Alan

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Nicci
New Member



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:18 pm

 

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Hi Alan,

We've just moved to Auckland, New Zealand from Toronto. We travelled for a whole year in between and spent two months in Perth, Aus. To answer your questions:

I know that Perth, Western Australia, is very different in a lot of ways from the eastern Australia, so there will most likely be a lot of differences (we have yet to visit the eastern states or the northern territory). It's also very far, distance wise from the other side of Aus -- it's actually closer to Singapore than it is to Sydney.

Perth is a fairly small city center, with a large suburban sprawl (pop. 1.5 million). It is the only city we have ever visited that is used, almost entirely, as a commercial area. We lived in a very nice, 1 bedroom, fully furnished apartment (nice furnishings/stainless steel appliances/telvision & vcr, etc) for $350 per week rent (rents in Aus and NZ are all stated per week rather than per month). Compare this to unfurnished crappy apartments that we lived in in Toronto for that money!

However, downtown is NOT where the action is at! At 5/5:30 pm everyone finishes work, jumps in their cars, and drives off to their homes in the burbs. A lot of stores downtown - and even restaurants! - just close at 5, as there simply isn't enough traffic. If you want to get something and you live downtown you'll probably find yourself making a trip to the suburbs.

It is very much a car culture. There is the train and busses but most people drive out of convienince. We were there for December/January and it was HOT. The poor Santa in the public square looked like he was going to pass out from heat exhaustion. At the time an arsonist was setting bush fires and the smoke got really bad. It's somemthing to be aware of if you have kids who suffer from athesma, bushfires are an occurance. Although, the bushfires occuring when we were there were the worst in 45 years, so the situation was pretty extreme. There isn't really much pollution, but the dust can get kicked up into the atomsphere. Usually the sky is a brilliant blue though (same here in NZ, fantastic after the smog of Toronto! Although, the UV here is *killer*!).

We found groceries to be extremely expensive. The reason was stated "because they have to transport everything so far". This is kind of weird: Carnarvon, the big agri area, is 560 miles/904 km north of Perth, sure, that's quite a hike but consider the distance that produce travels through Canada/USA! And here's the *really* weird thing: Australian produce costs less in SINGAPORE than it does in PERTH! :O Of course, economics are never straight-forward.

As a devout St. Lawrence Market shopper I recommend the Subiaco (Sue-Bee-Ack-Oh) market. It operates Friday to Sunday, the produce is much fresher than the supermarkets and the prices are much cheaper. They only have veggies, really, no seafood, bread or meat vendors like the St. Lawrence. There's a fantastic food imports store right downtown in Perth, near the train station. I can't remember the name... they have bulk spices of every description, teas, coffees, a selection of meats and cheeses, olive oils, etc etc. Fantastic store.

>>1. Is Australia a culturally rich and embracing country as Canada?<<
Perth really isn't what I would describe as vibrantly multiculturial. There aren't any real neighbourhoods like you get in Toronto. There are a few clusters of Korean and Vietnamese businesses/restos, but it isn't really the same. Unforuntately the legacy of the "White Australia" policy lingers on. There is certainly a pronounced backlash towards Asians from quite a few people in this region, often expressed casually. I'm sure you are also aware of the recent racial demonstartions in Sydney. There's a lot of racial tension/agression, and it's not always buried that deeply beneath the surface.

>>2. How would you compare family and social life in Australia to Canada?<<

We weren't really able to get out and mix with the locals very much, but the beach is a huge thing there. Scarborough is one of the big beach areas. It's definitely a very casual place for the most-part.

>>3. What are the negatives of moving to Australia when compared to Canada? <<

To be completely honest, we weren't not exactly enmoured with Perth. <g> We had been causually considering it but decided on New Zealand, which we had always been leaning more towards anyway. For us, there were a lot of different considerations. Auckland has a big surburban sprawl thing going on too, but people actually *use* the city center. We also found the cost of living to be more reasonable. However, that's just us: I know that there are a lot of people who adore Perth and could never imagine living anywhere else. A lot of Kiwis leave NZ for Australia (NZ citizens can work/live visa-free in Aus and vice versa) and Perth is a big destination for a lot of people. We didn't have a job lined up there, if we had, it may have changed our opinion in a number of respects.

Hope that helps!
Nic

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alans
New Member



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 3

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:52 pm

 

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Hi Nic,

Thanks for the comprehensive feedback. Have heard similar things about the cultural aspects of Perth. Apparently it's no comparison to Toronto on the cultural front. However, have been told it is very family oriented and good for persons who like the out doors. Lots of rather inexpensive golf! Our BIGGEST and PRIMARY MOTIVATION is to escape the extended winters . The question we ask ourselves is, is it a good enough reason to make such a big move? As you know we look forward to a white Christmas each year but then the snow and cold really gets me down as it does a lot of Canadians. We have two kids - a daughter who's ten, doing well in school and reluctant to move. A son too small to know any better. We are actually happy with the fact that our daughter is exposed to other cultures, this is important to us, considering we live in a Global village and are concerned about the insular nature of Perth. I suspect the schools too would not be as multicultural in Perth. I do have two cousins in Perth who actually moved there from the UK. One moved when she was a kid and knows no different the other after marriage and is still getting use to it even after having lived there for 2 years.

Just curious, what was your motivation to move NZ? And are you happy you did?
Thanks again.
Alan

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Nicci
New Member



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:56 am

 

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Hullo again

>>Apparently it's no comparison to Toronto on the cultural front. However, have been told it is very family oriented and good for persons who like the out doors. Lots of rather inexpensive golf!<<

I read a thread from someone else who replied, and he mentioned the heat. For us, this was a serious consideration - it is *oppressive*! And it wasn't acclimitisation, we left Canada at the end of Oct 2004, when it was still relatively warm, and were in Thailand and Malaysia before heading on to Perth for December, January. Everyone says "dry heat is easier to handle than humidity" which is true to a degree, but the lack of humidity can really get to you. Get this: they haven't heard of humidifiers in Perth!! We looked high and low, and the only thing you can get there are the old-style vapourisers that just heat water up into steam - no where will you find a wick-based humidifier as are easily obtained in Canada (heck, we'd seen them all over in MALAYSIA, a third world country basking in humidity!). So word to the wise: bring a good humidifier from Canada before moving to Aus!

The weather in NZ is much more to our liking. After a year of heat (we travelled throughout SE Asia for a year, excluding the 2 months in Perth) we're happy to be back in temperate climes (yay, with humidity). The weather is gorgous - in summer (now) it's typically in the high 20's, it doesn't really get much higher than 30. In winter the average temp is 15'C and doesn't really get lower than 10.

As a result I think it's a lot easier to enjoy the outdoors here and there is a lot to do. Even in Auckland, the biggest city, it's only 20 minutes to the beaches (and going even further out just means even nicer beaches that are less crowded) and there is a lot of parkland. The landscape is lovely too - lots of extinct volcanos so it's pretty hilly.

>>Our BIGGEST and PRIMARY MOTIVATION is to escape the extended winters Sad . The question we ask ourselves is, is it a good enough reason to make such a big move?<<

Well, there are definitely a lot more reasons to make the move as well. Living abroad is a great experience, and you can always make the decision to try it for a few years and then see where things are at. It really depends how keen your wife and kids are too. If they're up for the challenge I think it's a great experience.

I don't know if I mentioned this in my previous post, but if you do try Australia first there is "no risk" in then trying NZ too. Once you obtain permanent residency in Aus you are fully legally able to take up work and residence here in NZ as well (citizens of both countries [and PR holders of Aus] can live/work in both Aus and NZ without having to obtain permits/visas).

>>Just curious, what was your motivation to move NZ? And are you happy you did?<<

Our primary motivation was to get out of Toronto. We were disguisted with the way that the city is going downhill: the pollution, the ceaseless construction (which many cities have but many cities also manage much better!), the rising violent crime, the rising rents, the 60 hour work week... it was all just adding up to equal "we don't want to live here any longer". We figured we can always return to Canada and try somewhere else but we wanted to get out and travel in Asia. We decided to wind our way around and make our final destination New Zealand. I can't even remember how I originally found it, probably just a google search, but I arrived at the immigration.co.nz website and saw that not only was it spelled out in easy-to-understand language how to go about migrating, but they were actually openly ASKING for people to migrate instead of making it difficult. So, the strong need for skilled workers (the unemployment rate is only 3.4%) coupled with the weather, the lifestyle, the geography, the culture (the comparison of NZ being to Australia what Canada is to the US is pretty accurate - Americans and Aussies share a lot of characteristics as do Canadians and Kiwis), and the ability to secure jobs fairly easily were all major factors in making NZ our choice.

The economy was also a big factor: the dollar giving a little more "bang for the buck" with savings ($1 CAD = $1.20 NZD), whereas the Aus dollar is on par with the Canadian. At the same time the economy is strong and steadily growing - at the same time, interest rates are high, so keep in mind that borrowing is very expensive. Also the housing market has been going gangbusters (and the bubble will have to brust eventualy) so you may want to wait on buying a new home. Renting is cheaper than owning.

I'm also very happy with the job that I was offered. I took a pay cut but it was more situational based and would have been a similar scenario anywhere (old company employeed 100+, new 10+) - I also interviewed for jobs that were in line with what I was previously earning (and included the associated nightmares as well). The differnt migrant boards are always saying that NZ salaries are "so much lower", and that's true I think for people coming from the UK and the States, but I think it's pretty on par with Canada's wages vs cost-of-living (and yeah, Canadians whine about how Americans get paid more and pay less, so it works out in the wash!!). I'm in web (Toronto job: Website Manager, Auckland job: Internet Marketing Consultant).

Because the population of NZ is so small (4.1 million) and migrants account for a signficant proportion of the population we've found NZ to be very welcoming. About 5,000 people migrate here every year, about a third come from the UK.

If you can, an "exploritory trip" this is definitely a very good way to do things. Spending time in Perth, and perhaps a couple of other places that you are potentially interested in (and where there's potential employment). There are literally dozens of ways you can end up playing out the scenario: you can make it simply "a trip" and have it just be about having fun and discussing the possiblity of moving after you return, or alternatively you might be doing job interviews while your family is off exploring, and then sitting down with them and making the decision about where you want to settle.

And finally, to answer your question if we're happy about moving here, DEFINITELY! I do have to qualify that we've only been in NZ since late October, and the first several weeks were spent getting job applications sent off and doing interviews, but we're hoping to get out there and explore everything that the country has to offer.

Let me know if you have any other questions that I can answer.

Best,
Nicci

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witchwoman
New Member



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 1
Location: auckland

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:22 am

 

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hi, I have lived in nz for a long time. we are now moving to australia. Unemployment is on it's way up, and wages are very low.
the average doctors bill is $45 and prescription charges on top. Local rates are extremely high. The crime here is getting out of control. We live in a good neighbourhood, but burglaries are high and police dont really want to know, hence high insurances. We are more disillusioned and have decided to move to australia. I have lived there before, it is a beautiful country. NZ winters are very wet. Humidity is a problem for asthma sufferers. Contrary to govt sites for migrants in nz it is hard to make a start in nz. Good luck with your move.

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