Debating between moving to Shanghai or Dhaka

Hello Everyone,

I am now on a business trip between China and Bangladesh.
I will be relocated at the beginning of November either in Shanghai or in Dhaka.
Shanghai does not really worry me since I have been there quit often. My concern is more Dhaka.

I will really appreciate if someone can give some hint.
Best area to find apartment, where to buy furniture, how can it be for a single woman and anything that can helpful.

Thanks in advance,
Manon

Living is Shanghai is better than Dhaka. Why do you move?

Dhaka is rough, especially for a woman. I spent two years there. The weather is very hot and humid. The culture\society is conservative Muslim and women are not treated as equals. It is very crowded and poor; you will be stared at constantly and will rarely find any privacy. It is difficult to find familiar foods and you will need a servant (cook) to do the food shopping for you or you will pay many times the actual cost for everything. The bureaucracy, which you cannot avoid, is corrupt and inefficient. The traffic is dangerous.

You can tell that I really enjoyed my time there! - and I lived a fairly protected life as a diplomat at the Canadian High Commission! John

Hi John,

This is very encouraging
I just went on a recognition trip and actually I find it is really similar to India. I guess I was not expecting to see woman on the street and having office job as well.

If you have any tip please feel free to let me know.

Manon

Manon: Seriously, my tip would be to choose Shanghai! However, if you do decide on Dhaka, make sure your employer guarantees to provide you with decent accommodation, assistance in hiring night watchmen and at least one inside servant, and periodic flights out to Bangkok (say, every six months at least) for R&R. John

Hello,

I Live in Dhaka and LOVE it! I know that being a male is easier, the society is somewhat sexist, BUT that's not a problem if you are confident. Currently, two female friends are staying with us from Australia, and loving it! They are here for their Second time, and are currently extending their VISA. They both plan to come back, and one is planning to marry a Bangladeshi boy. Bangladesh is such a beautiful country, totally different from Canada in every way. For some, different = bad, but if you are open minded, and looking to learn about a new culture, and would like to make a difference in an emerging country - Dhaka is a place where one person really can make an impact!

Places to stay in Dhaka:
There are 4 main areas to consider: The north of Dhaka, has a VIP or Diplomatic Zone where foreigners tend to be most prevalent, but not tourist prevalent as in Tamil, Kathmandu or Suder st. Kolkata. Most of the "clubs" American, Australian, International etc. clubs are in this area - the Canadian Club has just moved here, is brand new, and is quite nice. Once you get "in" with the club group, getting into the other clubs is pretty easy.

Baridhara D.O.H.S. is the most secure, as entry is somewhat restricted, you can walk to the supermarket (there are 2 pick & pay's - both with a great selection of western items, but don't look for Kraft Dinner). D.O.H.S is almost all 5 or 6 story appartment buildings, making amenities easily available through the landlord, without much trouble or hassle, (Internet, Cable (dish line), and TT (Land line - however, you'll probably get by with just a mobile) and most of the buildings have a lift (elevator) and generators. Rent goes from 20,000 taka (about $300/month) and up. pretty much all the buildings have security of some sort, and are very secure.

Baridhara just south of the D.O.H.S. is more luxurious with large houses, housing typically for the Upper Eschelon of Dhaka society, it's more expensive, but then do you want to live along in a 5 floor single family home? Most of the embassies are located within Baridhara, and it's a bit farther to walk to the shops (Gulshan 2)

Gulshan2 and Banani are the other 2 parts of the "VIP area" located around Kamal Attaturk Road. Both areas are close to shops, but are not as secure. They are older and more diverse than the Baridhara areas. There are tonns of "to let" signs everywhere - and a lot say "foreigners only".

More centrally located is Dhanmondi or Mock Bazar both are considered upper class, and are both older, and for a single woman, might now be so appealing. The main reason to consider living in these area is if your work is central - old Dhaka, Farmgate, or Mirpur areas - as getting to work on the other side of the city can be a nightmare, as rush hour traffic is horrendous.

Surviving in Dhaka is rather simple. "when in Rome". If you believe that Canadian culture and lifestyle is the only acceptable means of living, and have no interest in adapting to the culture here, you will find Dhaka extremely difficult to survive. If on the other hand, you are excited to understand and adapt to the culture here, you will absolutely love Dhaka's diversity and the wonderful friendliness of Bangladeshi people. In one of the worlds most densely populated countries, privacy takes on whole new meaning. Everywhere you go people will ask you where you are from, what's your name, will you come to have dinner at their home, "how you find our Bangladesh?". You will face poverty that's hard to imagine until you are confronted by it, and you will need to adapt a personal policy on dealing with the turmoil that it causes you inside. (I often carry small food packets that i can give out, or i buy snack food for the kids, and give the older and disabled beggars 2 taka each. If they ask for more, i take back my "baksheesh".

Dress: if upon arrival, you quickly acquire a new wardrobe - a few 3 piece (Salwar Kameeze) outfits, it'll set you back anywhere from $10 (300 - 2000 taka each) and you will be respected by the local people. If you insist in wearing short skirts, and halter tops, expect to get physically molested and harassed. (it's like wearing a micro mini at a night club.) A "duporta" or "orna" is a substantial scarf that makes up the 3rd piece. This scarf is used to cover the chest, and how it's worn tells boys a lot about the girl. warn fully covering a womans front, says "back off, not interested", warn around the neck, exposing your chest seems to offer an open invitation to men's advances. There are variations on this theme.

Bangladeshi women also tend to be a lot more clear about the consequences of verbal and physical abuse (my wife certainly is, and i've seen a few friends make it extremely clear the consequences for bad behaviour) - i'm not sure if this makes the problem better or worse for foreign women, but my wife will straitly ask, in Bangla, if the man would talk to his mother like that? and offer a slap. And yes, she will slap a guy, rather hard, on the face, if she feels that he's earned it - the shame of being publicly slapped usually see's the man leave very quickly. One theory of why men target foreign women is because foreign women are believed to be easy and sleeping around (thank Hollywood, and western TV) is acceptable. It's very unlikely for a Bangladeshi woman to have any form of sexual relationship outside marriage, so foreigners get targeted because it's assumed it is acceptable. Along side that, is that foreign women tend to be very passive in dealing with it the problem, ie: "please leave me alone" instead of "Leave now, or I will slap you HARD".

Get to know a few bangladeshi words and phrases, it'll get you respect and you'll find it immensely helpful for getting around. There is a very good Lonely Planet Phrase book on Bangali. Bangladeshi's are VERY proud of their language, in fact the name of the country means "Bangla speaking people/country". If you learn only two phrases "kamon achen" is the respectful way to say "how are you?" and "ammi bhalo achi" means "i'm good thanks". It's incredible how quickly this will change any situation from one of hostility to one of "OH you speak bangla! were best friends now."

Whatever you do, come here with an open mind. the political situation is better than it's ever been in the history of the nation. Business and government have been cleaned up immensely under the current caretaker government, but elections due to be held this December could see this new peaceful situation change somewhat, however, having lived for almost 2 years under an anti corruption government, the people of Bangladesh have come to love the improvements that this brings, personally, i expect this to continue, and if the government that takes power in Jan decides to be corrupt, it won't last long.

Manon: Seriously, my tip would be to choose Shanghai! However, if you do decide on Dhaka, make sure your employer guarantees to provide you with decent accommodation, assistance in hiring night watchmen and at least one inside servant, and periodic flights out to Bangkok (say, every six months at least) for R&R. John

Really - it's not that bad!
hiring a night watchman is only needed if you live in a private residence without any amenities. There's no reason to consider such a place, and a night watchman won't be nearly as decent as a 24/7 security company. (we have both a caretaker and nightwatchman - but we live in an apartment - strongly recommend.)

Our place is fully furnished, and many places will be. Unfurnished means you need to find lights/and fixtures, fans, air conditioners, everything that isn't actually physically part of the building, so if you don't plan to MOVE here, you want furnished or partially furnished.
if you do want to buy furniture, it's cheep and easy enough to have it made on site. Gulshan 1 has a large market, and there are furniture shops everywhere. We buy all our appliances from MK Electronics on Gulshan 2 circle, they have great after sales service, deliver, have a huge selection and aren't much more expensive than a place where you'll need to haggle the price. The accept all major credit cards.

Finding a helper is extremely easy. If you are looking for a cheep live in "maid" for about $500 taka a month $12.00/month, you'll need some connections with village people, but if you are on a decent Salary, you can find a highly recommended, professionally trained and experienced cook/bearer for between 8,000 and 12,000 taka/month (that's about $120 to $200/month). In between that is a "bearer" or untrained serving woman who will ask between 1000 and 3000 taka (depending on references/experience), and quite frequently you'll find someone who can cook, clean and shop for you 6 days a week for that price. you will be expected to provide their food while they are at your house, "skimming" is common here, which means they will buy 6 kg's of beef, and 3kg's of onions, charge you for the lot, then on the way home, pick up the extra 1 kg of beef and 1 kg of onions and take that home.
once you know the prices and you let your face be seen in the markets, you'll be able to shop at almost the local's price. They do expect you are earning a LOT of money, so they think it's only fair you pay extra. (and really, it probably is - because cost of living far outweights salary's here).

Car - if you can't get around by Rickshaws or CNG (3 wheel auto-rickshaws) you will need a car, which usually comes with a driver. You can drive here on an International drivers licence (CAA auto club in Canada is the only place you can get one against a Canadian licence) but i wouldn't try driving here until you firmly wrap your head around the Bangladesh road rules, they are far more complex than anything in Canada, but once understood, driving here is surprisingly safe.
If you work for any of the diplomatic or foreign missions, they will typically have an office car (micro bus) which will pick up employees on a route, and then drop everyone at home at night. Renting a car costs about 1000 taka per day, and you can rent anywhere from an hour and longer.

If you need a break from Dhaka, you don't need to leave Bangladesh. The Tea Estates in Sylette are breathtaking, and you can find relative seclusion amongst the tea bushes. Staying in Sylette is very easy, and if you plan ahead, you can arrange an amazing break paying almost nothing. AC trains are very spacious and comfortable and cost very little. And there are several airlines that'll fly you interally for almost nothing. I frequently fly one way, train back, or vice verca - the train is beautiful and the flight quick.
Cox Bazar is another wonderful getaway. If you go off season (Canadian summer) most of the hotels are 50% off, and if you like to haggle, you can probably do better than that. Including at the fabulous 5 star Hotel Sea Gull, and yes, they will open the pool for just you! There are the occasional tourist, but expect to be in a fairly deserted paradise! You can't take the train all the way to Cox Bazar, as it stops in Chittagong, but it's not too difficult to make your way from the train station to the Bus Terminal. Be carefully you get the right bus, as the correct terminal is on the other side of the city, there are a number of places where they sell tickets and busses park outside just outside the train station, but you'll still have to make your way across the city to get to them. The Cox Bazar airport is about 20 minutes by taxi from the beach, and as i say - flights are pretty cheep.

And that's just getting started!

Hi Kene,

Thanks for your post, they are great.
I just got the word today that I am moving to Bangladesh.
I will be arriving in Dhaka at begining of November.

As far as the apartment, I did visit some places during my last trip. Furnished and non furnished apartment. My only problem with the furnished one was the size of the "roaches". I am not really a bugs fan, if you have any suggestion on furnished apartment that are roaches free. I might consider it. The area I was looking in was Gulshan but I don't know if it was 1 or 2. From your post I imagine I am better of cheking in D.O.S.H.

After eading your post i can't wait to be there. it will be a very interesting ride.

Thanks again!

i'm glad I was able to make you feel better about coming here.

Roaches. that's gunna be a problem wherever you go in Asia. There are several solutions:
Safeway - they are a bug extermination company, and they are pretty good.
Baygon spray - do it yourself. kills on contact, but if you are going out for a couple days, close up all the windows and doors, and spray everywhere.
There is a Roach Gel, I've only seen it once, but it's very good.
coils - good for mosquitos, but don't do much for other bugs.
plug in bug killers - waste of money.

Mosquitos are a bigger problem. I DO NOT take anything for Malaria, many travel doctors will tell you to, but there is no Malaria in Dhaka. If you are going into the forests or some remote part of Bangladesh you might want to take malaria tables, but i never do. I use Odomos cream (available here) which works better than anything from Canada.
We also have a plug in UV light bug zapper, and 2 zapper tennis rackets. There is a peculiar sense of satisfaction zapping mozies.

November is the perfect time to Come to Bangladesh! Everything is starting to cool down and dry up. So the weather is ideal. It's Papaya season, which is wonderful fresh off the tree, and divine with icecream!
Also harvest is in, so food prices start to come down from the hot humid summer, and jacked up prices of Ramadan/Eid.

Gulshan 2 is not a bad place to look for apartments! Were pricing out furniture and appliances for a new place, and were looking at about $3000 to $4000 for everything. That's bed, sofa, chairs, table, fridge, TV, cooking range and oven, lights and fixtures, fans, coffee tables, curtains, everything (we've already acquired most of our own bedding, kitchen wares and other small items). That's on a mid range budget. A decent sized fridge is going to cost us $800 at least.
Furnished apartments aren't that much more expensive than an unfurnished, and we've taken advantage of having a furnished apartment to save up and get nice stuff, instead of having to get really cheep stuff on a tight budget our of necceccity. So far, all our furniture has been custom made to our specifications, and that takes some time to do.

I'll pm you my phone number, and you can give me a call when you arrive. My wife and I would be happy to give you some starter tips about where to go to get stuff, and some other survival tips. (You'll discover that this is normal Bangladeshi hospitality). My wife loves shopping, and can usually get the half the asking price or better - or she just won't buy. (i'm gunna make sure she's the one who buys our fridge!) So if you wanna get some decent Bangladeshi clothing, which i strongly suggest for when you are out in public, and when it get's Hot, she'll see you in the latest style, and hooked up with a decent taylor, who charges a fair price. (yes, you'll have to get used to having most of your clothes tailor made for you).

Hello Kene,

I was wandering if you are aware on how it works for the taxes.
At the begining I will be there on a business visa and will be going out of the country about every month to China and come back. All my taxes will be paid in Canada. Will I get less deduction in Canada?