Is there such thing as impossible?

I can't comment on this particular case w/o the specifics.

That said, some people with a manager title are actually experienced, individual performers who require minimal supervision to do his/her jobs on a daily basis. They are not people managers, e.g. they have no authority over hiring/firing/budget. An analyst in a corporate world usually is a junior person, probably right out of college and thus requires close supervision on what and how to do his/her tasks on a daily basis.

lawsrlaws, I wonder what would be your expert advice to those experienced workers who happen to get a 'glorified' manager title Thanks.

He is not a CSA. He is a manager. There is a difference. A CSA analyzes data and then suggest to Management what is needed. In this case, he is the Management.

In my mind (and in others it seems), there is a distinct difference between having a title of "Manager" and actually being part of "management."

Titles are often self-aggrandizing (think of banks with hundreds of vice presidents) and don't often tell the whole story. Being the "manager" of something implies that there is something being managed, of course, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the person is managing the actual company. You can be a project manager for example, and manage a project (or multiple projects), and interface with different people but not necessarily manage these people. Architects, engineers, planners, etc., often have titles of "project manager" within their respective companies, and they would still qualify for TNs.

As someone else mentioned I think, the title of "manager" could just reflect the senior level at which this person is being hired (based on his/her experience).

lawsrlaws, I wonder what would be your expert advice to those experienced workers who happen to get a 'glorified' manager title Thanks.

This is exactly what I was thinking, one of my relatives has a job with a multinational corporation and at one point his job title was something like: "Vice-President of Customer Facilitation" or something incredibly fluffy like that. Basically what it meant was he was the guy the salesmen sent in to baffle the client with BS, really it meant he was an assistant salesman.

Let's face it, being called a "computer systems analyst" isn't really that good for your employee's ego so you might end up being called "vice-present of IT project management" because it's cheaper than paying you more.

And the other thing is that that job is very different today than it was back in 1993 when the NAFTA was written.

Thx for everyone's feedback

I do agree with the fact that this is a title issue more than anything, and if anything with manager is considered 'fraud', then the titles will not enable many people to become project managers and such.

In the link that Steven posted, the role of a CSA does have design, architecting, and things like "They prepare specifications, flow charts, and process diagrams for computer programmers to follow"
that Project Mgrs, Product Mgrs, and Program Mgrs do on a day to day basis.

Beyond the title, this legal department to me seems very very new at this. Even *if* the TN was not the right choice, there was no reason why they could not have sponsored me for an H1B. I waited 6 weeks while they 'worked' on this. They kept saying the economy was bad and that they could not justify why they were hiring me.

However, as I looked more into this, there is no justification process needed - I spoke to an immigration lawyer. Mainly the package needed to be filled out and then the government would decide if I would get it. *Not* the company's legal dept.

They even said if they *were* to do the H1B, that I'd have to pay for it. Now that sounds even fishier.

So, no, I do not applaud them for anything or checking anything. The things they checked were apparently from calling the Immigration Department - I'm not sure how they were able to get an answer.

Anyways thanks again and the end of this story was 'Sorry, we've spent enough time on this'. Back to the job hunt as I'd like to work there to be with my hubbie

-- Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:31 am --

Oh and one more thing, I don't think companies who very well know I'm from Canada should even do any interviews with people if they know for certain their role is something that can not be sponsored for. I mean sure, fair advertising but what a waste of time! They knew day 1 that I'd need a TN or H1B.
~ yoeshi

Sorry, but if your part of the Management Team, then you are a Manager. It doesn't matter if its a glorified title. If the TN letter states that he is in Management, then the Officer will take it as such. If you guys think it doesn't matter, then put "vice-present of IT project management" on your CSA letter and see if you get the TN.

Again the OOH is a guideline, not the Law. We unfortunately have to submit the TN's to a higher power, and they are not in the least leanient on job titles. There is a very narrow scope of leaway for TN's. Its just the way it is.

-- Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:30 pm --

lawsrlaws, I wonder what would be your expert advice to those experienced workers who happen to get a 'glorified' manager title Thanks.

Expert advice. I am faaaar from an expert. I used to work with one though and he knew all the ins and outs. My "opinion" on this thread is based on going through countless TN's, and reading interpretations that are not available to the public. Every year, the CBP bigwigs have a pow-wow with Canadian immigration lawyers, and then that information is sent to the Ports of Entry. In these meetings, NAFTA is the main topic. I represent the "other side" on this forum, so i know my opinion will not always be liked, but I have helped MANY people get their TN's approved that desrved them, but were just missing something.