Main differences between Canada & Australia

[marmoura81]

Hi everyone,

I apologize in advance if these questions have already been asked, but I'm very new to this forum and would appreciate some insight.

My husband and I (no kids yet) are planning on making a move to Australia on skilled worker visas. He is a pharmacist and I'm an HR manager with an mba, so we qualify with high points.

Mainly I'm interested in learning the differences in:

1 - economic / standard of life - is more expensive? less expensive? housing? grocery shopping? costs? etc.

Coming from Toronto, the median for a good size 3-4 bedroom home is around $300-500K if you are in the inner suburbs.

2 - coming on skilled workers visas and with PRs, how difficult would it be to get a mortgage, drivers license, ID etc.?
3 - finding jobs? is it a similar process?
4 - weather - summer vs. winter ??
5 - was it difficult learning how to drive on the other side??
6 - surrounding countries to visit for holilday?

I know these seem like a lot of questions, but I would VERY MUCH appreciate it if you could help me out.

Yours, Mary

[comet555]

1. Housing is definitley more expensive, particularly in the major cities. If you plan on working in a major city I think you'd probably be living in the outer areas and commuting in if you want to buy a house for that cost. We live outside Brisbane and we bought our house for $460,000. Mind you, it's nicer house than we would have had in Canada (4 bed, 2 bath with pool). However, the farther in you go the more expensive it is. Right now it's a 35-45 minute bus ride for my husband to get to work.
You can see house prices (for sale or rent) here:
www.realestate.com.au

If you're living away from the major cities than the housing prices improve dramatically.

Groceries are probably more expensive, but that would vary depending on the item. Some things are more expensive (like Coke or Pepsi) and other things can be cheaper. You can do a pretend shop here to see the prices:
https://www.colesonline.com.au/webapp/w ... ageDisplay
Under new customer just type in area code 4157 (that's mine) and it should let you shop so that you can see all the prices.

Vehicles I thought were fairly similar in price:
http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars
There is no such thing as GM or Chevrolet here though, the equivalent would be Holden (which way back when used to be GM in Australia).

2. We didn't have any problems with those things when coming on a skilled visa. For our drivers license we just walked into the office and they handed us a Queensland one after filling out some forms and paying the fee. I think it's the same for other states although you'd have to check each state individually. I did get to keep my Canadian one unharmed too.

Setting up a bank account was just as easy too. We walked into a bank the first week we arrived, showed our passport and other ID and opened up a bank account. If you open it up early on arrival (less than 10 days I think) the ID requirements aren't as strict. Transfering money over was very easy too and we used Ozforex (far better than the bank). We use Westpac: www.westpac.com.au

For us the mortgage was very easy. My husband had started work mid June and in August we were approved for our mortgage. We did have a large deposit though and had paid for about 40% of the house so we weren't really seen as a risk. We just had to show all of our financial info and job offer, pay slips, etc. Very similar to Canada. Really it just depends on your situation, income and all that.

3. Finding jobs is pretty similar although they use recruiters a lot more here. So you might discover that the jobs you're interested in are all listed by recruiters (as was the case for my husband). You can find jobs by looking at:
www.seek.com.au
www.careerone.com.au

4. The weather all depends on what you like. There really is only two season here, summer and winter. Their summer is pretty similar to our hot part of summer in most areas of Australia. I have had no problems getting used to summer here. Air conditioning is a must though because summer lasts a lot longer and heat waves can get pretty hot. As for winter I find that to be more like our Spring. During the winter (in Brisbane) it can get up to about 22-25 and sunny during the day and can get down to 2-12 degrees at night. So pretty nice really. The big difference is the houses are not really insulated at all and don't have furnaces. So if it gets down to 2 degrees at night it's freezing in the house! There have been a few times in the winter where I've pulled out a portable heater or two to help warm things up, usually just for a bit in the morning though. I had people warn me about that before I moved but I just thought no big deal I'm Canadian. But trust me, it can't get very cold in the house but luckily it's not like that for long.

5. Driving on the other side of the road (not wrong just different!) is a bit awkward and scary at first. But it's truly not that bad. We had a stressful first ride getting from the airport to the hotel made worse by jetlag. But once we learned how to use the gigantic phone book sized map (do this BEFORE driving) things got easier. One of us concentrated on staying on the left and the other worked on the map. After a couple of nervous days it wasn't so bad and after a week or two we thought about it a lot less. A few months down the line and it was second nature and no problem at all. I'd say it's really only difficult the first week and after that it's pretty easy. Also, it depends on where you're going. We landed in Sydney so our first couple of days were in the middle of a busy city, once we got out into the country it helped us relax a bit and get used to driving with less pressure.

6. So far we've mostly just travelled within Australia. We're probably only here for a few years so we want to see as much as we can. We've done the Great Barrier Reef and the 12 Apostles so far and have loved them both. For other countries there's obviously New Zealand and Fiji is pretty popular too. You can also get relatively cheap airfares to parts of Asia and the pacific Islands.

The countries as a whole are pretty similar so I haven't found it too hard to adjust. When you start looking at things though you'll see the differences, like your normal brands when grocery shopping and the different terms and pronunciations for things.

Good luck with the visa. A permanent visa is definitely the way to go!

[marmoura81]

Thanks comet555,

You really know how to provide GOOD INFORMATION and I am so thankful. I'm sure everyone is because I've noticed that you are the one that responds most objectively to many of the posts here. You are very well appreciated.

I had asked the same questions above in another online group I founds (meetup.com) and the only person that responded had this to say (below). Overall I was grateful, but I found it to be quite negative. What do you think? I value your opinion more.

1. economic standard of life: melbourne is quite expensive. the cost of living is higher and the overall wage is less. taxes are higher. groceries are more expensive. property is more expensive. however right now because of the global recession property is lower so a good time for buyers. properties generally are much smaller than what you would be used to. its like comparing apples with oranges. australians build back we build up. so you can have several " units " built behind each other. houses are not insulated ( the climate) but when its 13 outside its 13 inside !! they have single room heaters and what they call evaporative cooling instead of A/c . but places have mobile a/c units also. aussies spend less time in their houses and they are not as " house proud " as canucks. they dont have a winter to deal with. there is no tipping when you eat out. melbourne is a cornucopia of eateries, cafes ,restaurants. it is amazing. you can find cheap eats easily. Wine is pretty reasonable here. Gas is quite expensive . right now it is $1.25 a litre. it has actually come down quite a bit/ now as i am saying all this i have ottawa as my frame of reference and canadian friends who came out to see me for a big trip found everything much more expensive. there is a great coffee culture in melbourne. a cup of coffee can run you anywhere from $2.50 to $3.50. its all different. short black, long black, latte and flat white/ ...back to property melbourne is not the nations most expensive but for eg a small property in the city as they say here meaning closer to downtown will easily run you 500 grand to 750 grand. it all depends on which suburb you are in.

2. skilled workers visas... there is a shortage of skilled workers here. please tell me what you do and i can give you more specific info. what is PR ? personal reference ? in terms of mortgage drivers license and ID... you can get a drivers license no probs it is interchangeable with ontario. you dont even have to do a test !! just a written multiple choice one. they ask for so many points of id everywhere you go ( i mean to get things etc ) so you need your passport a drivers license, bank account, medicare card. so i would recommend to get a bank account and your DL's right away. i would imagine the mortgage would be ok once you were established and have credentials here. job etc.

3. finding jobs .... you have to be very thorough and assertive. its racist but the truth that ozzies will hire their own 1st. having said that if you both do jobs that there is a shortage of here it wont be a problem. i had the experience of having my canadian education questionned and was told that i had to do the equivalent ozzie course !!! ( i had my job b4 coming over) i flatly refused and proved that the canadian credentials were in fact superior. otherwise it is very similar, internet etc.

4. weather ..... i was used to very humid heat in the summer in ottawa. here it is very dry. it took a bit of getting used to. now i love it. the ozone is completely fried over oz so even in the winter you burn. the ozzie sun is nothing to be fooled with. they have the highest rate of melanoma in the world. victoria ( the state ) has been in drought for several years. so there are water restrictions. you cant wash your car witha hose for example... has to be a bucket and sponge. you have to water your outside plants etc at certain times. the drought affects everything...grocery prices etc. there have been terrible terrible fires this year but melbourne is not affected. there are definite seasons in melbourne but i love that. they have an expression here " 4 seasons in one day " it can be coolish, rain, hot, sunny, cloudy all in one day. its hysterical but to ozzies 12 degrees in their so called winter is freaking freezing to them. the coldest it gets is about zero early in the morn but very rare. anywhere from 8 to 16 degrees in the winter. summer 20s to 40s. spring autumn pretty nice .

5. driving. .... all your instincts tell you to look to the right. walk on the right etc. here all left. its very weird at 1st. you feel like your head is on a swivel because you dont know which way to look. they have roundabouts everywhere in stead of traffic lights and they are weird too. but all of it you get used to very quickly. melbourne is very easy to get around. public transport is pretty good altho i only had ottawa to compare to and i have been here for 6 and a half years.

6. surrounding countries to visit for hols.... australia is massive so so much you can see here. its very different landscape and beautiful in a very different way. lots of ozzies go to bali , indonesai etc. vietnam. you can travel there quite cheaply. i havent gon eas i have concentrated my travelling here. one last noye ozzie slang is fantastic it is a new language. the everyday expressions they use are not familiar. very british. everything is different in terms of daily life. it is all quite bewildering and unfamiliar at 1st.

[comet555]

I would have to say that I agree with most of it. At first it did feel very negative but I think it's just how it's written. As I read on it just seemed more like jumping from subject to subject quickly.

Here are my comments based on that post:
1. Drivers licence. It may or may not be an easy swap. It depends on the state you go to. In Brisbane it was a straight swap, no written or driving test for me! In hindsight it might have been a good idea because for a couple of months I kept turning left at red lights (like turning right on a red in Canada) and later found out it was illegal! Other than that no problems. But the posters comments were very true. The hardest part to adjusting to drive was the looking the wrong way, you'll find that you automatically look the way you did in Canada. When here the oncoming traffic is coming the opposite way so it's hard to change the order of looking left/right, etc. But seriously, driving wasn't that bad so I'd say it's not something to stress about. Be careful crossing the street while walking though, the same thing applies about looking the wrong way. It's easy to look one way and start walking and then discover that you actually haven't checked the oncoming traffic at all. After a couple of times you learn real fast!

There are a lot of roundabouts and u-turns. In the area where we are there are medians all over the place so I'm constantly doing u-turns (mostly legal) to change direction. There are lots of roundabouts in our area too. In a 15 minute drive away from the house I can go through about 8 of them. Some 2 lane ones and 1 lane ones. To be honest they use them well here, I'm actually a big fan now. They're also very well marked, like the left lane can go left or straight, and the right lane (inside) can go straight or right. So it's marked right on the road and people almost always know what they're doing.

The point she made about walking on the left though is true. You'll find initially that you might be bumping into people a lot because you're walking in the wrong place, you'll only really notice in the cities in crowded spots.

The cost is a big thing really. I would say on the whole that it's more expensive. I'm probably the wrong person to ask though, I don't pay that close attention when I'm grocery shopping. My visitors always comment on it though. We probably spend about $1200 a month on groceries (2 adults, 2 little kids). I do try to buy some things cheaper, but on the whole that's with not budgeting.

Gas is always more expensive, although it's called Petrol here. At the moment it's about $1.15 a litre so not that bad. You just get used to to be honest.

That's the same with all of the costs, after an initial adjustment you get used to it. Australia is an isolated country so they do import a lot and they also make a lot here too. The comment about tipping is true, they really don't do that here. It's very hard to get used to! I once left $2 on the table (not much by our standars) and I had to run back in because we forgot one of the kids cups. The waitress saw me and said "you forgot this". So sometimes they don't really get it!

As far as job go it really depends on what you do. Some people make more, some makes less. Initially my husband made a little bit less than in Canada but in the year and a half that he's been there he's had like 4 raises and been promoted once. So he's making far more than he ever did in Canada. He's an engineer so he didn't have any problems with qualifications or experience, although some people do. It really depends on your profession.

The sun, I think people go a bit crazy over that to be honest. When we go out in the morning to school or the mall I don't bother with sunscreen. However if we're going in the pool or going to be out for an hour or so we put on sunscreen. We never really get burnt unless we forget to put it on. So nothing to panic about really, if it was the middle of summer and it was really hot and sunny and you were going to spend the day in it you'd put on sunscreen. That's no different here.

The water restrictions are real, lots of the big centres have restrictions on water use. We are more conscious about it but we find we don't use that much water. Mostly it affect watering the gardens topic up pools, etc. I have never watered anything in our garden, it's all still very much alive after almost 2 years. Mostly because the things that are planted are used to the drought and suited for it.

Brisbane doesn't get 4 seasons in a day. I've heard that about Melbourne, and after visiting it in the summer I can believe it. Brisbane is very much summer for half the year and then winter (but a nice winter). I love the weather but my husband finds it a bit monotonous.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Thanks for your compliment by the way. I just remember what it was like looking for information myself when we moved so I peek in quite often to see if there's any questions.

This is also a great site. It's mostly for people from the UK moving to Oz, but there are people from all over. Even a few Canadians.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54
It can be a bit tempremental at times so I would maybe spend a bit of time having a read through it. There's a section for immigration questions too, which is how I managed to do our application by myself. Good luck!

Haley
P.S. If you ever want me to call, or would like me to call you I can do that. I call Canada all the time very cheaply, so if you think it would help then it's no problem.

[possums]

hello,
Comet has done very well in replying to your Qs but I'll give it a go also!

1. We find the cost of living to be similar to where we were living in Canada, we moved from Victoria, BC to the Gold Coast in Queensland. The houses are smaller here and not many have room for a suite to rent out but we are quite close to the beach, we don't spend much time inside anyway so to have a big yard is a bonus.

2. My husband found it quite easy to get his licence and open a bank account in his name, I am from here and I found it very difficult to open a bank account in Canada.

3. I don't agree with the quote you attached from that other person, we have not found the workforce to be racist, we don't hire our own first. My husband finds Australia to be very fair, we have a zero tolerance on racism and discrimination in the workplace and companies support workplace diversity.

4. Where we live it is Sub-Tropical, we have the wet seasons Jan-March and the hottest time of the year is the 8 weeks over Dec/Jan. We have cooler weather in July and August but cooler to us is 18 degrees and under. We live quite near the mountain ranges and wineries and it gets down to the minuses up there.

5.It took my husband a little while to learn how to drive a different car but after a few laps around the block you pick it up quite easily. The roundabouts keep traffic flowing and you just have to remember to always give way to your right.

6.Canadians love to visit Mexico and Aussies love to visit Bali, Thailand and Vietnam. Fiji is also very popular and New Caledonia is only a few hours flight from Cairns, if you know French then this would be a great destination.

Hope that helps, good luck with your move!

[Steven]

There is no such thing as GM or Chevrolet here though, the equivalent would be Holden (which way back when used to be GM in Australia).

Holden is the brandname for GM Australia. A lot of their models are the same ones sold under the Saturn/Opel/Vauxhall brandnames in other countries.

The main trick to driving on the other side of the road is to keep your eyes on the centre of the road, if you're used to driving on the other side you have a tendency to follow the sidewalk and drive up the kerb.

[comet555]

Ah yes,

I had it backwards actually. I thought that they used to be the same company or affiliated and then split apart. But after a quick check I see the opposite is true. They used to be separate companies but now Holden is a subsidiary of GM.

That does explain why there are quite a few similar cars with different names!

As for the driving I found that the lack of a yellow line dividing traffic a bit odd. They do have a solid line, only it's white, just like the lines at the edge of the road. Also, the fast lane is the opposite here. If you want to go fast you should be in the right hand lane and the slower drivers should keep to the left.

[nitefriend]

one thing i found really strange about driving is turning right on streets with multiple lanes in Australia (the equivalent of turning left in Canada). You have to move all the way to the left lane (by the curb) and wait there. When you turn, to be safe, you have to check both the traffic coming from behind you and the opposite direction to make sure that nobody is running a red light.