Some interesting info on US citizenship at birth

Does some one have any more info on this? By doing a search on the net I seem to only find partial/contradicting answers to the info below. Recently while waiting at the airport for my flight, I ha...

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canadianexpat96
Junior Member

Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Cambridge, ON

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:37 am

Does some one have any more info on this? By doing a search on the net I seem to only find partial/contradicting answers to the info below.

Recently while waiting at the airport for my flight, I happen to talk to a fellow Canadian who lives in the US(both husband and wife are on H1-B/H-4 visas in the US with no intentions to apply for green cards) and she was telling me that she wants to go back to Canada to give birth there instead of in the US. When I asked her why she wanted to do that she pointed out few things that I was not aware myself regarding US Citizenship:

I knew that if a child is born in the US he/she will automatically become US citizen by birth and Canadian by the parents' citizenship. In that case if the child moves back to Canada let's say at the age of 2-3 and never comes back to live in the US(maybe come for vacation visit) he or she will have to according to what she told me:

1. Always travel to/from the US using a US passport even though he/she will also have a Canadian passport.

2. If male he will have to sign up with the Selective Service for the US military and thus potentially be drafted in the US military if situation like that occurs in the future.

3. He/She will have to file US taxes for the rest of their lives. To me this last one does not really make sense especially if that child moves from the US at a very young age, never works in the US or uses any social services. I know there are tax treaties, exempt amounts, foreign credits etc and most people do not end up paying taxes twice but this seems more like a hassle having to do two filings every year?

If anyone knows more about these issues please elaborate. I am curious to know what people think about this. I know that in most countries you can give up your citizenship for different reasons but this lady said that doing that in the US can give one hell trying to come back to the US even for a short visit later on.

Steven
CanuckAbroad VIP

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Calgary

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:16 am

Sounds like someone has been telling her scare stories, because in extremis it's sort of accurate but in reality it's not that bad.

If the birth is in the US and the child is registered with the Canadian embassy, they can just be a Canadian citizen and that's it pretty much. As far as the US is concerned they will never check unless at some future point they apply for a US passport or whatever.

Selective service only applies to males anyway, and they can claim the Canadian service exemption when they issue the draft notice, i.e. if there's a war they'd rather side with Canada. And the US only gets wind of it when they apply for a social security number anyway, which they wouldn't if they were living outside the US. Personally I think the chances of a draft ever being imposed in the US except in some dire emergency (which would effect Canada too) are basically nil, as the current war in Iraq shows. It's too politically unpopular. Worst-case scenario the child renounces their US citizenship at that point.

The tax situation is more complex, they do have to file a US tax return if they are a US citizen and because the US foreign tax credit exemption is so limited they may well be subject to paying US taxes and some dual taxation - however in reality there's very little the US can do about it if they don't file unless they move to the US and if they've never filed a return or applied for a social security number, it's hard to see how the IRS would find out.

Even if the child does go to the US at some later point to take advantage of their US citizenship, in reality the IRS will simply require 1040s to be filed for a few previous years (maybe). They don't actively go after US citizens abroad who have never lived in the US as adults.

Objectively I think the advantages of being a US citizen outweigh the slight awkwardness with the IRS if the child ever decides to move there (especially for Canadians due to the geographical proximity). The absolute worst-case scenario of course is that the IRS say they're going to come after you, in which case you simply don't go to the US. Unless you're super-wealthy and operating an off-shore gambling syndicate it's hard to see extradition procedures taking place. And once again, if that ever did happen they can renounce their US citizenship anyway.

One assumes if you get to the extreme point that you're renouncing your US citizenship that going to the US probably isn't top of your list of things to do, so overall I think it's better to have it than not have it.
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Reba
Moderator

Canuck in NC

Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 857
Location: North Carolina

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:07 am

Quote: Even if the child does go to the US at some later point to take advantage of their US citizenship, in reality the IRS will simply require 1040s to be filed for a few previous years (maybe). They don't actively go after US citizens abroad who have never lived in the US as adults.

I know a guy that this happened to. He was a dual citizen, but lived in Canada his whole life. Then decided to move to the US for something to do, and because he was sponsoring his Canadian wife, the IRS made him back file 7 years worth of taxes. I don't think he ended up paying any taxes, but the fee for the accountant was a bit exhorbitant!
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BCM
New Member

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Jersey City

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:52 pm

Under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution all people born in the US are citizens. If your parents take you anywhere in the world you are still a citizen and subject to US laws including tax laws.

Steven
CanuckAbroad VIP

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Calgary

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:18 pm

And you're apparently also considered to be "natural born" if you are the child of two US citizens.
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Steve.

canadianexpat96
Junior Member

Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Cambridge, ON

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:54 pm

I just never thought of these things until this woman at the airport mention them to me.

Reba before your friend moved back to the US did he take occassional trips to the US for vacation or short visits? Did he carry a US or Canadian passport during those visits? Because apparently it is illegal to enter the US on any other passport other than American if you are American citizen.

Reba
Moderator

Canuck in NC

Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 857
Location: North Carolina

Posted: Yesterday at 2:56 am

I honestly couldn't tell you.
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