Salary calibration

[dimple2001]

I am having a hard time calibrating salaries between US/Canada and UK. For example, a Production Manager in a manufacturing industry in the US/Canada would make between $75K and $110K depending on several factors. Monster job site lists salaries for production managers at 30K to 35K (pounds).

Is that considered comparable? I mean, a Prod Mgr is a middle to upper middle management positions in the US/Canada. Salary seems pretty low in the UK?

Can some one give more examples of US/Canada vs. UK salaries? Thanks.

[oohmercyme]

I'm not familiar with your industry, but I think around 60% of the salary you made in North America is about right. So if it was $100,000, then around £55-60,000 seems about right.

[Steven]

I am having a hard time calibrating salaries between US/Canada and UK. For example, a Production Manager in a manufacturing industry in the US/Canada would make between $75K and $110K depending on several factors. Monster job site lists salaries for production managers at 30K to 35K (pounds).

Is that considered comparable? I mean, a Prod Mgr is a middle to upper middle management positions in the US/Canada. Salary seems pretty low in the UK?

Production manager isn't a skill that is in demand in the UK, that is a lower salary than you would get in Canada, no question. Salaries in that job went down sharply during the 1980s when Thatcher cracked down on the unions.

A lot of people doing that job emigrate to get better salaries.

If you're earning $75,000 in Canada, you have far more buying power than someone in the UK earning £35,000. Part of the reason for the recent difference is the strength of the Canadian dollar, but even before that, with the high cost of living in the UK you would have been worse off in the UK.

When Longbridge closed down, quite a lot of people (although probably only a few percent) shipped themselves off to Australia (I knew one guy who moved to Germany). Most people re-trained as plumbers, etc.

Manufacturing industry is in decline in the UK just like it is in Canada, but the UK is ahead of where Canada is now in that regard. Manufacturing makes no sense in the UK because of the high cost of labour and the high cost of land. Most of the industrial areas around Leeds and Birmingham now are condos and retail. Leeds looks totally different to how it looked ten years ago. The whole Vickers plant was demolished and completely redeveloped, a huge area.

Personally I think the Jag plant in Birmingham is living on borrowed time. I seem to recall the last big GM assembly plant closed down a few years ago and was moved to Germany. Toyota have a big plant in Derbyshire which is essentially in the middle of nowhere, but that made economic sense because they wanted to avoid the VERs (Voluntary Export Restraints) on Japanese vehicles.

Only car plant I know of making money in the UK at the moment is the BMW Mini plant near Oxford.

And that's just cars.

[dimple2001]

Thanks Lori and Steve.

It does not seem to be just manufacturing jobs whose salaries are lower. For example, a Sales Director position in a medical field is advertised at a salary of 65K GBP (I don't have this pound symbol on my keyboard). A Program Manager/Project Manager is at 25K to 35K GBP.

Maybe, a lot of services are subsidized, but after taxes, is it possible to run a decent livelihood with family on a $35K salary? Maybe it calls for a paradigm shift on the definition of lifestyle

[Steven]

$35K with family? That's pretty tight for the UK. Depends on where you live, the SE is far more expensive. If you look at salaries around London they are usually way higher, because the cost of living there is far higher too.

Taxes are a big factor, for example if you have a car in London, you have to pay congestion charge, which is £8 a day, car tax, which is far higher than registration in Canada, fuel tax, which is fantastically higher (a US gallon costs about $9 at the moment), VAT on the fuel (and tax) which is 17.5%, etc. Marginal rates of income tax in the higher brackets are higher in the UK too, the maximum rate in Canada is around 38% and in the UK it's 40%. There's a tax for every occasion. Estate tax, gift tax, TV licensing fee (tax) which is around $250 a year, etc.

Plus enforcement of all these taxes is way more severe, my office was next to the HMRC building in the town where I worked and my boss was married to the tax inspector for the area, they would sit looking through the classified ads in the paper to get people. One of the tax guys told me he walked into a newsagents run by some Bangladeshis to buy a paper and he'd never seen the place on a tax return. So he went back to his office, found out they'd never filed a return ever, and assessed them 20 years of back taxes with penalties!

They have signs up telling people to pay their TV licensing fee with people's addresses on.

The cost of living is one of the main reasons I left and moved to Alberta (that and the police state mentality). My house here cost half as much and is twice as big, and I lived in a rural area in the UK.

It's also a very crowded country, which is another reason I left. The population of the UK is nearly twice the population of Canada and the land area is less than half of Alberta.

I do think the healthcare is better in the UK than here, but I think that's largely because Calgary is growing so quickly at the moment.

[oohmercyme]

Plenty of families live on 35K a year, depends on the kind of lifestyle you plan to lead. Although 35K is a bit low.

Dimple you got it right when you said a paradigm shift is needed regarding lifestyle. In North America we are all about bigger is better, but that's not the case here. You don't need a huge house (no one has one), you don't need a big car (only a few idiots have them). Realistically you don't need a car in London, if what you need isn't within walking distance (and it likely is just around the corner), public transit is excellent. As for TV tax, my personal solution, don't have a TV.

Some of us have enjoyed our time in the UK much more than others. Number one thing to remember- This isn't North America. If you expect it to be, you won't enjoy it. If you aren't willing to adapt to living in another country, stay home.

Despite the quirks of living in the UK, its a great experience! Good luck!

[dimple2001]

Thanks again so much.

I am one of the idiots driving a big car, although in Canada and US

Anyway, I have semi serious thoughts of trying an expat position within my field for about a year or two in Western Europe, preferably UK or Netherlands. No intention of settling in either.

I live in Canada and commute to work in the US to a very decent job. I have extensively traveled to several European countries and Mexico. So, I thought, why not look into expanding my portfolio with an expat assignment. Right now, there seems to be more opportunities for expat career in my field in China, India and Mexico than Europe.

[Steven]

Anyway, I have semi serious thoughts of trying an expat position within my field for about a year or two in Western Europe, preferably UK or Netherlands. No intention of settling in either.

If you plan on doing that, you can claim the tax treaty exemption, which (unlike the US one which is hideously complex) simply exempts you from paying UK income tax altogether. The only snag is that the UK tax year is from April 6th-April 5th which makes working out the amount you put on your T1 complicated. Also you can file R105 with the bank which removes the withholding on your bank interest (yes, they don't wait until you file your return like in Canada).

If you're in a high income bracket this will save you a bit of money.