Why do the British hate their country so much?!

[sclements75]

I'm from Toronto (with dual Canadian/British citizenship) and made the decision to move to the UK in April '09. I do really like Canada, but have truthfully grown very bored with its lack of culture and national pride.

In trying to guage people's feelings about life in the UK, I've looked on many internet forums and seen COUNTLESS posts from British people about how anyone from the Americas would be crazy to want to live in the UK. They all say the country's going down the toilet and that they'd leave if they could.

Now, I know that Canada has a higher standard of living than the UK, but it is culturally dead. I yearn for the sense of national identity that the British have (whether they know it or not). To many people this isn't important, but to me it is.

Do you think I'm crazy for wanting to move there permanently?

[Iseult]

Not crazy at all!

Taking residence in UK opens up the door to the entire European continent, and a very different way of life. Take it as an adventure, and go ahead. Change is good!

[iancanton]

the british do not have a single national identity. i normally do not describe myself as british, and make a point of saying on official forms, such as landing cards, that i am scottish (for example nationality - uk: scotland).

for much of the past few decades, the most visible groups of people to wave union flags were northern ireland unionists, fans of rangers football club (who used to be known for their anti-papist bigotry) and the (racialist) british national party. some people began to feel that to wave such a flag would arouse certain suspicions rather than be an admirable expression of patriotism.

english nationalism was, and continues to be, suppressed by the uk government: scotland, wales and northern ireland have their own parliaments, but england does not. this is probably to prevent a future first minister of england, representing 80% of the uk population, becoming a serious political rival to the uk prime minister.

so is it all doom and gloom? not so much doom, but we certainly lack sun during the winter months, which might add to the gloomy outlook of many people. toronto sees a lot more sun than we do!

ian.

[iancanton]

as for average standard of living, there is very little in it. cost of living is higher in the uk (and a lot higher in the british capital), but salaries are also higher.

in practical terms, this means low-income canadian residents have an easier time trying to keep their head above water than low-income uk residents but, after reaching a decent level of disposable income, uk residents see the benefits of their nominally higher salaries when accumulating savings or travelling abroad (transatlantic flights are about the same price when bought in either country, so it's easier to buy them with a higher salary).

ian.

[sclements75]

All I have to do is listen to BBC radio to hear how much more of a sense of identity the British have. The British take much more of an interest in the progress of their country than Canada does. UK politics MATTER and have a real impact on the quality of life. It doesn't matter who's in power in Canada. It's always the status quo.

I also see the explosion of music, film, television and literature coming out of the UK as evidence that the British people support their culture and are not dominated by the American media. There's simply no point in Canadian media creators competing with America. Canadian media simply gets swallowed up.Canadians don't care about what its artists or commentators have to say.

The UK has more rain and less sun, but Canada is FREEZING! The winters are too long and largely unbearable. I look at UK expats who've come to Canada and think they're crazy and wonder how they deal with the depression-inducing Toronto winters.

Plus, why is the TTC so run down and dirty? The London tube system is pristine and taken by the richest of the rich.

The British can go anywhere in the world and are instantly recognized. Canadians are always taken for Americans, because we have no distinguishing traits of any kind. I think New Zealanders feel the same way - always taken for being Australians.

Canada's a safe place to live, with a high standard of living, but so is Norway. Would I want to live in Norway? Nope. Why? The boredom would kill me.

[Foxy]

Perhaps this thread should be subtitled "Why do (some) Canadians hate their country so much?"

I'm on the opposite side of the fence from you at the moment. While I concede some of your points, my current experience makes me appreciate things in Canada and my city of Toronto, very very much.

This is my second stint at living in another country. Each time, it makes me appreciate what we have in Canada more than I did before I left, because it offers a stronger basis for comparison than I had before - first-hand. Hearing what things are like in another country, and actually living it are two very separate matters.

You might try asking your British expat friends what brought them to Canada. You may be surprised. Some things are more important than others on people's lists. For some, winter may not bother them because another benefit far outweighs it.

Of course, I say this while I live on a tropical island, avoiding all winters for the next few years. But to be honest, that's not enough to keep me away from Canada permanently.

Good luck to you in the UK.

[Steven]

In trying to guage people's feelings about life in the UK, I've looked on many internet forums and seen COUNTLESS posts from British people about how anyone from the Americas would be crazy to want to live in the UK.

Having lived in the UK and the US for many years, they're right. The only reason to move to the UK that I can see is if you've gotten a good job offer and will make tons of money moving there.

Canadians and Americans have this romantic view of the UK because of the Royal family, etc., but it's total nonsense.

The UK supposedly is suffering a massive wave of immigration at the moment, but personally I think it will slack off because the economy is going down the toilet. Lost count of Polish people who've moved to the UK for the money, and then they get there are realise the cost of living is so high they can barely afford a bedsit (if they can).

However if you look at the emigration stats for UK-born people, literally hundreds of thousands of people are moving to Australia and Spain.

I heard some estimate on Radio 4 once that by 2150 they reckoned there would be no white people in the UK if current trends continue (although I think that has probably changed since EU enlargement).

Yes the UK has a "national identity" which is better phrased imo as an "island mentality" or as the Americans call it: a "Not Invented Here" mentality. Which rapidly got up my nose because there is always some prevailing attitude you're supposed to agree with about everything, and I didn't because often it's stupid.

The reason Britons whinge so much is because it's such a crowded country and it's just a release valve mechanism. You can't do anything about the high cost of living and so on so you just complain about it endlessly.

Also I think a lot of people have forgotten that it was the discovery of North Sea oil and natural gas in the Irish Sea which lifted the UK out of long-term decline in the 1970s. Well the gas is gone now and the oil fields are also in decline so long-term I'm not convinced the UK has a bright future.

[Steven]

For some, winter may not bother them because another benefit far outweighs it.

The weather here is vastly superior to the UK imo. Depends on where you live in Canada of course but in the praries the main downside is that it does get cold during the winter, but the amount of sunshine is staggering compared to the UK and we don't get much snow. Back east you get more snow but obviously it's even warmer during the summer in southern Ontario.

Better than the miserable grey weather that seems to predominate in the UK.